ÿþ<html> <head> <title>Nickhil.Com | Plato's The Republic Essay</title> </head> <body text="white" bgcolor="black" link="#ff0000" vlink="#800080" alink="#0000ff"> <p> <!----------------------- 1st Table -----------------------> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <!----------------------- 2nd Table -----------------------> <!----------------------- Left Menu Bar -----------------------> <table border="0%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr> <td valign="top" bgcolor="#000000" width="1">&nbsp;</td> <td valign="top" bgcolor="red" width="130"> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma" size="-2"> <b><u>Nickhil.com Virtues</u></b><br> <li> <a href="thephilosophers.html"><font color="black"><b><link color=black>The philosophers</b></a></Font color="black"><br> Find out about classic Western and Eastern philosophers <li><b> <a href="bookreviews.html"><font color="black">Book Reviews</font color="black"></b></a><br> Find out what the Nickster thinks about philosophy <li><b> <a href="theessays.html"><font color="black">The Essays </font color="black"></b></a><br> See what has been discoursed about various political philosophers. <li><b> <a href="favquotes.html"><font color="black">Favorite Quotes</font color="black"></b></a><br> Find out some of Nickhil's favorite quotes from world-reknowned philosophers. <li><b> <a href="nicksbio.html"><font color="black">About Nickhil</font color="black"></b></a><br>. 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Visit other sites affiliated with Nickhil.com or Nickhil's personal favorites. <P> <td bgcolor="#000000" width="1">&nbsp;</td> <td width="5">&nbsp;</td> <!----------------------- End Left Menu Bar -----------------------> <!----------------------- Right Info Bar -----------------------> <td valign="top"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr><td height="10">&nbsp;</td></tr> <tr><td valign="top" bgcolor="red"> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma" color="white"> <center><b><font size="-3">The Republic essay you always wanted to read.</font size="-3"></b></center> </font> </td></tr> <!----------------------- End Right Info Bar -----------------------> <!----------------------- Subsection TD -----------------------> <tr><td valign="top"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr><td valign="top" height="5">&nbsp;</td></tr> <!----------------------- Subsection #1 -----------------------> <P> <TABLE cellpadding=6 cellspacing=6 border=0 width=200 align=right bgcolor="red"> <TR><TD valign="top"> <center><IMG SRC="socrates.gif" border=0></TD></TR> </center> <TR><TD><FONT size="-1"><font color=black> <i> Always remember the forms, my son... </FONT></TD></TR></TABLE> <P> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma" color="red"> <strong>Socrates always talks about the ideal form... Well here it is.<br> <UL> <li> <font color=white><font size="-3"> The Essays</font size="-3"></font color=white> </UL></strong><br> <P><font size=1> Here is an essay Written on Plato's <I>The Republic</I>. The question is as follows: <I>In the Republic, does Plato answer Aristophane's criticism of Socrates in the Clouds?</I><P></font size=1> <P> <Font size=-3> <LI><I><Font color=white>Nickhil Singh<P> <LI><B>Title: </B>You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!</font color=white></I><P> Aristophanes depicts the philosopher Socrates as a menace to Athenian society in his play Clouds. He accuses Socrates of three main things: impiety, corruption of the youth, and treason. Ultimately, Socrates defends himself against similar charges in an Athenian court and is found guilty of these crimes. However, in Plato s the Republic, Socrates truly gets to defend himself, for he does not face the scrutiny of an Athenian jury . Instead, comfortably amongst his throng of companions, he engages in a discussion of justice and how the philosopher plays a role in the formation of an ideal state. Here, we learn his true beliefs and the bases of the charges brought against him. Despite his valiant efforts, he fails in his attempt to show his innocence. In fact, he shows the opposite; he indicts himself. In the Republic, Socrates espouses beliefs dangerous to Athenian society and adds credence to the charges that ultimately brought about his demise. <P> In order to prove Socrates danger to society, it must be first shown he possessed radically different religious, social, and political beliefs, for the charge of corruption would be groundless unless this were true. The charge of impiety stems from Socrates beliefs in something other than the Greek gods. In Clouds, Strepsiades goes to Socrates to learn unjust speech, and Socrates tells him that Zeus is not god, but  ethereal vortex rules the world (Clouds, 379). Arisotophanes points that Socrates believed in some other higher power than traditional Greek gods is supported by the text of The Republic. In describing how he would raise the youths, the guardians of an ideal city he creates in the Republic, Socrates says, <P> They are far from needing to have tales told and embroideries woven about battles of giants and the many diverse disputes of gods and heroes with their families and kin. But if we are somehow going to persuade them that no citizen ever was angry with another and that to be so is not holy, it s just such things that must be told to the children right away by old men and women; and as they get older, the poets must be compelled to make speeches for them which are close to these. <P> Socrates rejection of the Greek gods shows that he possesses a different set of religious values than his fellow Athenian citizens, but the degree to which this is true is uncertain. He believes children should be raised with different ideals about gods. How different are those beliefs? Further exploration in the text is necessary to understand the differences between Socrates gods and the Greek gods.<P> Socrates makes two distinctions to clarify this matter. The first distinction he makes is that  the god, since he s good, wouldn t be the cause of everything, as many say, but the cause of a few things for human beings and not responsible for most (379c). Socrates takes the position that gods cannot cause harm, and therefore, human beings are responsible for their actions. The Greek gods portrayed in books by Homer and Hesiod epitomized the opposite of this belief, as they engaged in many promiscuous acts and committed evil deeds to satisfy their whims. Socrates perspective of the gods would put more emphasis on people trying to be perfect, and not allow them to use the gods as an excuse for failure. He also says that  god is altogether simple and true in deed and speech, and he doesn t himself change or deceive others ( Republic, 382e). Socrates monotheistic belief in one god is contrary to the prevalent belief in many gods of fickle dispositions. Both of these differences seem to discredit the Greek gods completely. Athenians were raised by the values of the Greek gods, and if these gods did not exist, as Socrates claims they did not, then the values and beliefs upon which the city was founded would be a lie. This would seem to suggest that Socrates has different values than other Athenian citizens. <P> Political systems are based upon the goals, beliefs, and values of its society and leaders. If Socrates possessed different values and religious convictions from the Athenian people, then he might have possessed different political beliefs, too. In describing the economic plan for the Guardians of his ideal state, Socrates espouses political ideals different to Athenian society,  there mustn t be private houses for them, nor land, nor any possession. Instead, they must get their livelihood from the others, as a wage for guarding, and use it up in common all together, if they are really going to be guardians (Republic, 464c). Socrates ideal state contains economic equality for its rulers, but Athenian democracy places more importance on freedom. Further evidence in the text supports this claim of different political beliefs, specifically when Socrates outlines his best forms of government and puts aristocracy, timocracy, and oligarchy above democracy. Socrates does this despite saying that democracy is  the fairest of the regimes (Republic, 557c) and that it is a  sweet regime, without rulers and many colored, dispensing a certain equality to equals and unequals alike (Republic, 558c). Socrates reasons that asceticism and moderation are the most important values of a society. He values these qualities in a society more than freedom of choice, the basic principle of any democracy. Just like in religion, Socrates rejects the principles of his people. That would have be fine if he were just any other man, but as a voice in the community he possessed a power to influence others. <P> The youth of that time were the most impressionable audience for these ideas, hence, the charge of corrupting the youth. Aristophanes portrays Socrates influence in Clouds. Socrates teaches logic to the youth Pheidippides, who ultimately uses this logic to justify beating his father. In the Republic, Socrates shows how he would manipulate the youth the very same way. When describing the education of his youth,  the guardians of the an ideal just city, Socrates says,  that first we tell tales to the children. And surely, they are, as a whole, false, though there are true things in them too. We make use of tales with children before exercise (Republic, 379A) Socrates implication that the youth can be controlled by a person of authority, shows his inclination to deceive the naïve and inexperienced. Socrates takes these educational beliefs to an extreme when he suggests censorship of all fiction,  we must supervise the makers of tales; and if they make a final tale, it must be approved, but if its not, it must be rejected (Republic, 377c). Fiction represents new ideas and creativity, but Socrates does not want this in his city. He wants to mold his students into his image of a just human being. (Just like Pheidippides). The danger to Athens lies not in Socrates possessing these beliefs but in his ability to influence others. He possessed his own apprentices, like Plato, whom he taught his values and beliefs. He would also speak to large gatherings of people and take on students who wanted to learn his logic. The youth valued his opinion. One needs only to look at the beginning of the Republic, when Adeimantus and Polemarchus coax Socrates to come with them by threat of violence, to prove this point (Republic, 327c). Since this city can be seen as a microcosm for Socrates beliefs, it is not a leap of faith to suggest he taught these values in his  school of thought. If these youth knew nothing other than Socrates version of the truth, they would be molded in his beliefs and could potentially harm the city. <P> In what way would they do this? Eventually, this generation would rebel against the prevailing social, religious, and political belief system acceptable to general body politic, potentially gain control of the nation, and, thus, change the nature of Athens. This possibility would be unacceptable to the old Athenian rulers, for they would lose their legitimacy and power. More importantly, a major gulf in thought, belief, and value systems would exist between older and younger citizens, and clashes of ideologies would occur, potentially leading to violence and threatening the existence of Athens entirely.<P> The charge of treason also comes from Socrates ability to influence and inspire people, particularly during war, to do acts perceived to be disloyal to a state. We must remember that for much of Socrates life, Athens fought against a neighboring city called Sparta. The Spartans ruled by timocracy, so Socrates comments on the forms of government portrayed sympathy for the enemy and that further justified action taken against him. The argument could be made that Socrates made no action to start a revolt; however, in a time of war, any criticisms of a government take on greater significance and are perceived as more threatening to the legitimacy of a government than at times of peace. Moreover, criticism of government affects the morale of citizens and, therefore, could be a determining factor in the outcome of a war. No government would have any choice but to charge Socrates with treason, for he, like any conspirator, could potentially jeopardize the well being of a city and its inhabitants. <P> Even if one didn t consider Socrates or his teachings to be dangerous, his students could have still misperceived them and caused even greater harm. In the Republic, Socrates labels only a select part of his proposed population, the so-called  Philosopher Kings, as being able to rule and actually see the truth as it is, and not as it seems (Republic, 515d). The rest of people in society are blind to reality (Republic, 515c). If non- Philosopher Kings were put into power, the danger would be even greater, for these people would not be able to use Socrates logic properly. (Strepsiades and Pheidippides exhibit this very fallacy in Clouds). As Socrates himself says,  those who are without education and experience of truth would never be adequate stewards of a city (Republic 519c). Socrates cannot guarantee a perfect education; therefore, he cannot assure the proper usage of his teachings. He could influence anyone in a way he perceived as positive or negative; in both ways, there existed danger.<P> The Republic does not exonerate Socrates from the criticisms of Aristophanes , but further proves the poet s points. Socrates possessed different social, religious and political beliefs opposed to Athenian society, but more importantly he possessed the ability to influence others. That influence potentially threatened the stability of the Athenian government and justified his guilty verdict. <P> <P> <P> <P> <P> <P> <P> <P> Want to reach me? E-mail me at <a href=mailto:nickhil@nickhil.com>nickhil@nickhil.com</a> <P> <P> </font> </td> <!----------------------- End Subsection #1 -----------------------> </tr></table> <!----------------------- End Subsection TD -----------------------> </td> </tr> </table> <!----------------------- End 2nd Table -----------------------> </td> </tr> </table>